Job 38

                             by Marc A. Breault

                     (c)Copyright 1992 by Marc Breault
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A STUDY ON JOB 38

In this discussion, I am concerned with two questions. First, the meaning
of Job 38:12-15. Second, the identity of the speaker from Job 38 to 41.

This second consideration may seem pointless, since Job 38:1 clearly
identifies the speaker for us.

JOB 38:1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, (KJV)

Unfortunately, Branch theology has muddied this seemingly clear picture.
Vernon holds that the speaker is really Elihu who starts speaking in Job
32.

(Job 32:1-2 KJV) (1) So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he
{was} righteous in his own eyes. (2) Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu
the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his
wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God.

Elihu, in some mystical way, becomes the mouthpiece of God and therefore,
the Bible treats him as "God." in 38:1. The whirlwind is Elihu who takes
breath into his body and expels it again. Thus, there is a movement of wind
which is identified as the whirlwind. We will discuss the validity of this
belief later in this study.

But first I would like to turn to Job 38:12-15. I hope that by the time
this study closes, you will see that the first and second questions stated
above are, in fact, related.

(Job 38:12-15 KJV) (12) Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days;
{and} caused the dayspring to know his place; (13) That it might take hold
of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (14)
It is turned as clay {to} the seal; and they stand as a garment. (15) And
from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be
broken.

VERNON'S THESIS

Vernon's hold and absolute control over his followers stems from his belief
that he is the Lamb. That he is, in some way, God in the flesh. In fact, I
submit the following quote as evidence.

God in the flesh! Do you know who I am? God in the flesh! The Word of God
in the book has been shown to you. The most powerful of all prophets, the
prophet that's found in the books. Lo, in the volume of the book it is
written of me, Psalms 40, I come to do thy will Oh God. Thy law, prophecy,
is within my heart. Now what better sinner can know a sinner than a godly
sinner? Huh?

This incredible doctrine is achieved in a rather simple chain of logic, if
you can call it logic. First, Vernon claims to have the Spirit in him. The
Spirit, according to Vernon, is the Root of David. Since the Spirit resides
in him, then he is the Root of David in the flesh. To reject him means to
reject the Root of David within him. Since the Root of David is the only
worthy one to open the book, and since the Root of David resides in him, it
follows that he, in the flesh, is the only one worthy to reveal the book.
Hence, he is the Lamb.

This theology has grown into a belief that he is Jesus Christ in the flesh,
the same man who came 2,000 years ago. To do this, Vernon seeks to use the
mystery of the incarnation of Christ. He carries the doctrine of God in the
flesh to its extreme. For example, Vernon uses Hebrews 5.

(Hebrews 5:9-11 KJV) (9) And being made perfect, he became the author of
eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; (10) Called of God an high
priest after the order of Melchizedek. (11) Of whom we have many things to
say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

In chapter seven of Hebrews, we read also of Melchizedek:

(Hebrews 7:1-3 KJV) (1) For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the
most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings,
and blessed him; (2) To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first
being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of
Salem, which is, King of peace; (3) Without father, without mother, without
descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like
unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

It is clear from these passages that Melchizedek is indeed someone special.
Vernon employs these passages to show that God in the flesh is a mystery
which goes far beyond a man who came 2,000 years ago. Vernon attempts to
show that anyone who is led by the Spirit is Christ Jesus, God in the
flesh.

This is how he justifies his position. He has the Spirit. Therefore he
continues in a line of God in the flesh people. Having said this, however,
Vernon extends himself to the greatest of all God-men.

One of the chief scriptures used in this doctrine is Job 38. The
controversial verses are:

(Job 38:12-14 KJV) (12) Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days;
{and} caused the dayspring to know his place; (13) That it might take hold
of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (14)
It is turned as clay {to} the seal; and they stand as a garment.

Vernon's theology revolves largely around the dayspring or morning star or,
more modernly put, the rising of the sun. He claims to have the message of
Cyrus, the angel from the east. Just as the sun rises from the east so he,
Cyrus, the Sun of Righteousness arises with healing in his wings.

THE SCRIPTURE, JOB 38

Upon first glance, it appears that God simply asks Job if he can command
the sun to rise every day. There does not appear to be much more
significance beyond this. If we were to paraphrase this question (38:12) we
would paraphrase as follows: "Since you have been alive, have you been able
to control the morning's coming? Or can you make the sun rise where it is
supposed to?" If we were going to be more scientific about it, we would ask
". . . Can you ensure that the earth maintains its proper distance from the
sun?"

So far, at least looking at v. 12, God is not asking Job about the message
of Cyrus. This is borne out in the previous verses which deal specifically
with the phenomena of nature.

(Job 38:1-11 KJV) (1) Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and
said, (2) Who {is} this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
(3) Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer
thou me. (4) Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?
declare, if thou hast understanding. (5) Who hath laid the measures
thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? (6)
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner
stone thereof; (7) When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons
of God shouted for joy? (8) Or {who} shut up the sea with doors, when it
brake forth, {as if} it had issued out of the womb? (9) When I made the
cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it, (10)
And brake up for it my decreed {place}, and set bars and doors, (11) And
said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud
waves be stayed?

So far, there is no prophetic element found in Job 38. Everything is
centered around God's control over nature. This context must not be lost as
we explore the verses in question. I will repeat them here.

(Job 38:12-15 KJV) (12) Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days;
{and} caused the dayspring to know his place; (13) That it might take hold
of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (14)
It is turned as clay {to} the seal; and they stand as a garment. (15) And
from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be
broken.

Just what is God asking Job in these verses? Let us break this passage
down. There are two parts to verse 12. First God asks Job if he has ever
controlled or ordered the way the morning comes since he has been alive.
The answer is, of course no. Job has never commanded any aspects of the
morning. It simply comes and Job has no control over how it comes, or even
when it comes.

The second part of verse 12, however, is where we run into a dispute
because of the term dayspring. Some have automatically interpreted the
dayspring to be prophetic simply because it is used prophetically in other
parts of Scripture.

But the Bible also uses the dayspring as referring to the sun. It is, in
fact, this in its literal sense. But how would the dayspring know its
place?

For the sake of argument, let's assume that God is speaking prophetically
here. Let us also say, for the sake of argument, that God is asking Job
about Cyrus, the supposed dayspring of prophecy. God's question to Job
would then be: "Can you cause Cyrus to know his place?"

In the light of Job, in his relation to the time period he lived, this
would be a silly question since Job would obviously have nothing to do with
Cyrus. But what would it mean to cause Cyrus to know his place? We must say
that at first, Cyrus would not know his place. He would not know about his
position or status. Job, then, would have to make him aware of his place,
position, and status with God.

But God speaks in the past tense. Have you, Job "caused" . . . Thus, we
would render the question thus:

"Have you ever commanded (or ordered) the morning since you have been
alive? and caused the sun to know its place?"

Notice that the second portion of 38:12 is a continuation of the first
part. That is, causing the dayspring to know its place is part and parcel
of commanding the morning. So the question really refers to Job's ability
to do these things since his birth.

Since Vernon's understanding of Cyrus deals with the latter days, it is
obvious that Job would have had nothing to do with Cyrus in the past
because Cyrus would not have been around. So why would God chastise Job for
not being able to cause Cyrus to know his place, when Cyrus obviously has
yet to make his appearance?

To add to this we note that Job was familiar with some latter day events
for he himself said:

(Job 19:25-27 KJV) (25) For I know {that} my redeemer liveth, and {that} he
shall stand at the latter {day} upon the earth: (26) And {though} after my
skin {worms} destroy this {body}, yet in my flesh shall I see God: (27)
Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another;
{though} my reins be consumed within me.

Evidently, Job knew that he would be in the grave during the last day
events, and that he would only see God after his resurrection.
Prophetically speaking, Job's resurrection falls at the time of everyone
else's resurrection. But Vernon teaches that Cyrus gives his message before
the resurrection. Thus, for Job to cause Cyrus to know his place, Job would
have to be alive prior to his resurrection in order to make Cyrus know his
place. So by Vernon's own interpretation, Cyrus will be known by whether
Job actually comes alive and lets Cyrus know who he is.

Since God's question to Job centers around Job's past ability to command
the morning, it makes much more sense, and indeed is the correct
interpretation, to see this as referring to the literal sun. We know, for
our own solar system, that the earth is the right distance from the sun to
support life. Other planets are either too far, or too near the sun to
support human life. Hence, the sun is placed at the right distance from us.
In this manner, God commands the dayspring or sun to know its proper place.
It is neither too close, or too far. Job has obviously never been able to
change this.

With verse 13, however, we move into another problem area.

JOB 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked
might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

The "it" here refers to the dayspring or sun. Here is introduced a possible
prophetic element. If we were to paraphrase the latter part of Job 38:12,
with verse 13, we would get something like this: "And caused the sun to
know its place, so that it could grab hold of the ends of the earth and
shake the wicked out of it?"

Vernon's explanation is that the power of the sun, or the source of all
light (depending on his mood) is put into a person, the clay. We will
refute that later. He holds that the power of God is placed inside of
himself. When he comes forth, he, being God in the flesh, will take hold of
the earth and shake the wicked out of it. He uses Psalm 75 to back himself
up.

(Psalms 75:1-10 KJV) (1) Unto thee, O God, do we give thanks, {unto thee}
do we give thanks: for {that} thy name is near thy wondrous works declare.
(2) When I shall receive the congregation I will judge uprightly. (3) The
earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars
of it. Selah. (4) I said unto the fools, Deal not foolishly: and to the
wicked, Lift not up the horn: (5) Lift not up your horn on high: speak {not
with} a stiff neck. (6) For promotion {cometh} neither from the east, nor
from the west, nor from the south. (7) But God {is} the judge: he putteth
down one, and setteth up another. (8) For in the hand of the Lord {there
is} a cup, and the wine is red; it is full of mixture; and he poureth out
of the same: but the dregs thereof, all the wicked of the earth shall wring
{them} out, {and} drink {them}. (9) But I will declare for ever; I will
sing praises to the God of Jacob. (10) All the horns of the wicked also
will I cut off; {but} the horns of the righteous shall be exalted.

Vernon interprets this Psalm with himself as the protagonist. Thus, the
earth is dissolved and out of joint. This is seen in a prophetic sense (I
agree with that). When the Scripture says "I bear up. . ." Vernon refers
this to himself, not God. Thus, Cyrus, the dayspring, bears up the pillars
or foundations of the earth. He is responsible for the earth's stability.
Thus, if it were not for himself, the earth would not be stable. Indeed,
when he comes forth, the earth will not be a safe place.

If we read Psalm 75 in the KJV, as we have done, there does seem to be some
strange language. But if you read this text in other modern translations,
you will see that these versions render the passage as God saying: "When I
shall receive the congregation I will judge uprightly. The earth and all
the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.
I said unto the fools, Deal not foolishly: and to the wicked, Lift not up
the horn:"

That is, these translations have God saying these things. We are thus left
with a textual dilemma. Just who is bearing up the pillars of the earth in
Psalm 75?

In all fairness, it is possible to read Psalm 75 the way Vernon does. That
is, that the writer, the "I" is the one who bears up the pillars. Of
course, I do not believe Vernon is the protagonist.

We then have two possible readings. In order to determine which one is
correct, we can look at it textually in the Hebrew but I believe we may
still be left with the dilemma (although I believe the text shows that God
is the one who bears up the pillars).

Fortunately, there is another way. If Psalm 75 is, in this instance,
prophetic, then it must agree with the other prophecies. Let us see, then,
what the other prophecies say about this subject. We shall see that the
prophecies teach that it is God who keeps the earth stable, and that it is
God who will shake it.

PSA 104:5 {Who} laid the foundations of the earth, {that} it should not be
removed for ever.

ISA 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my
right hand hath spanned the heavens: {when} I call unto them, they stand up
together.

These Scriptures, and many others show that God is in control of the
heavens and the earth. Read, for example:

1CH 16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable,
that it be not moved.

PSA 102:24 - 25 I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days:
thy years {are} throughout all generations. Of old hast thou laid the
foundation of the earth: and the heavens {are} the work of thy hands.

The Bible also shows in many places that God ordained the boundaries
between earth and sea. Nothing can happen but by God's will.

We shall now turn from the question of who keeps the earth stable, to who
shakes the earth.

ISA 2:19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves
of the earth, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when
he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

ISA 2:21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the
ragged rocks, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when
he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

ISA 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove
out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his
fierce anger.

ISA 24:18 And it shall come to pass, {that} he who fleeth from the noise of
the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of
the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open,
and the foundations of the earth do shake.

EZE 38:20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and
the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth,
and all the men that {are} upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my
presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places
shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

JOE 3:16 The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from
Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord {will
be} the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

HAG 2:6 For thus saith the Lord of hosts; Yet once, it {is} a little while,
and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry
{land};

It should be easy to see that it is, in fact, the Lord who will grab hold
of the earth and shake it, so to speak. He alone will be exalted in that
day, we read in Isaiah 2. No man will be exalted when God shakes the earth.
This status belongs solely to the living God, who rules in heaven.

In the light of this scriptural evidence, and there are other scriptures
besides, we must conclude that the way to understand Psalm 75 is that God
holds up the pillars of the earth. He it is who bears up the earth.

Earlier, in the book of Job, we read:

JOB 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, {and} hangeth
the earth upon nothing.

We see that it is God who hangs the earth on nothingness. Thus God is given
the credit for creating the earth, and for maintaining its existence.

What then is meant by the dayspring grabbing hold of the ends of the earth
and shaking the wicked out of it? To answer this question, I will turn to
two passages of Scripture: Isaiah 13, and Isaiah 24. At this point, I would
advise the reader to examine these two passages carefully. I believe you
will find something very interesting.

ISA 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove
out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his
fierce anger.

In a normal earthquake, the tectonic plates do move. but the earth is not
removed out of her place. We do not say that the earth's orbit has changed.
Could this passage mean that the earth will actually be moved in space?
Will its orbit change?

According to Isaiah 24, we learn some startling facts.

1. The earth will be turned up-side down.

ISA 24:1 Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and
turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
(KJV)

2. The inhabitants of the earth will be burned, with few men left.

ISA 24:6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell
therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned,
and few men left. (KJV)

3. The earth will reel too and fro like a drunkard.

ISA 24:20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be
removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon
it; and it shall fall, and not rise again. (KJV)

4. God will be the cause of all this devastation.

If we string all of these events together it is easy to see what this
prophecy, which many scholars call the Isaiah apocalypse, tells us.

The earth will, by God's power, be pulled closer to the sun. This will, of
course, create a massive earthquake and will, in turn, cause the
inhabitants of the earth to burn. It will, in short, be a devastating
scene.

As we recall certain other passages in Scripture we will note the following
additional events.

1. There will be a massive cloud cover at God's coming.

(Zephaniah 1:15-18 KJV) (15) That day {is} a day of wrath, a day of trouble
and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and
gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, (16) A day of the trumpet
and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. (17) And
I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men,
because they have sinned against the Lord: and their blood shall be poured
out as dust, and their flesh as the dung. (18) Neither their silver nor
their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the Lord's wrath;
but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he
shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

2. Rivers, streams and parts of the sea will dry up.

ISA 42:15 I will make waste mountains and hills, and dry up all their
herbs; and I will make the rivers islands, and I will dry up the pools.
(KJV)

3. Mountains will melt.

(Micah 1:3-4 KJV) (3) For, behold, the Lord cometh forth out of his place,
and will come down, and tread upon the high places of the earth. (4) And
the mountains shall be molten under him, and the valleys shall be cleft, as
wax before the fire, {and} as the waters {that are} poured down a steep
place.

4. The oceans in turmoil.

LUK 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the
stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and
the waves roaring; (KJV)

These are all events which can be explained by the earth moving closer to
the sun during God's period of vengeance. As the earth moves closer to the
sun, the rate of evaporation would increase dramatically at first. Rivers,
streams and other bodies of water would be dried up and the water would, at
first, form massive clouds. Of course, the closer proximity would also
cause the melting of the polar ice caps. That would cause a dramatic
increase in water level. Thus, the smaller bodies of water would dry up
while the oceans would increase thus giving more water to the clouds.

In a very real sense, then, the prophecies show that when God does shake
the earth, the sun will effectively grab hold of the earth and shake it
terribly. Imagine what a sudden change in the earth's orbit would do?

Even Christ mentioned the sea and the waves roaring (Luke 21). The heavens
will be shaken. With a change in earth's orbit, the heavens would take on a
drastic new appearance. And if the moon were dragged closer to the sun,
along with the earth, perhaps the increased intensity in light would cause
a blood-red appearance. I shall have to investigate that possibility.

Thus, in our passage of Job, it is very easy to see the dayspring taking
hold of the earth, etc., as a very real, literal, astronomically
explainable event. This event will take place when God rises to shake
terribly the earth. And if God chooses to restore the earth to a good
position with relation to the sun, that is God's business.

]Job 38:14 It is turned as clay {to} the seal; and they stand as a garment.

Vernon uses this verse to teach that the power of the dayspring is put into
the clay. He, being human, is clay. Thus, the light is put into him. I will
set forth Vernon's theology on this point by a series of equations.

1. dayspring = spring or source of light.

2. God = spring and source of light.

3. Power of God = dayspring.

4. Dayspring = clay after dayspring is put into clay.

5. Clay = Vernon. Thus, dayspring = clay = Vernon.

6. dayspring/Vernon/Clay = seal. Man needs this seal for salvation.

There are a couple of things which should be noted here. First, what does
the word "it" refer to? That is, what is turned as clay to the seal.
Second, the verse deals with appearances. Something appears to be like clay
under a seal. This is borne out by the second clause in this passage (they
stand as a garment). This is clearly a reference to appearance.

The word it could refer to either the dayspring which grabs hold of the
earth, or to the earth which is grabbed. The rules of grammar would point
the word "it" to the earth, since a pronoun modifies its closest
antecedent. Since earth is closer to the word "it" then is dayspring,
grammar suggests that the earth is, in fact, what is meant here.

Vernon's interpretation demands that the word "it" refers to dayspring. We
might ask how the sun stands as a garment? Also, since Vernon is so intent
on using the KJV solely, we might emphasize that the word used in Job
38:14b is "they." It is they who stand as a garment. But that is simply
minor haggling I suppose.

To fully and completely determine whether the earth or the dayspring should
be attached to the word "it" we will examine the meaning of the passage and
fill in the blanks, as it were.

We might say that something appears to be like clay after it has been
marked by a seal. Nowhere does this verse indicate that anything is put
into the clay. In fact there is a comparison. Something is turned as clay
to the seal. There is no clay involved in this passage except by way of
comparison. If I say, "It was turned into something resembling a roaring
lion" I do not say that the "it" was turned into a lion. Rather, it
resembled a lion roaring.

Clay was often indented with a seal. When a seal is put to clay it indents
the clay according to the fashion of the seal. These curves stand out so
that if you view the clay, you can see clearly what is indented upon it.

This is further emphasized by the comparison to a garment. If features are
woven onto the garment, you can definitely see them. They stand out.

Thus, whatever it is that is turned in 38:14, it takes on the appearance of
clay after a seal has been put to it. Of the two possibilities: the
dayspring (sun) or earth, which would fit this description? The answer is
obvious. If you look at the earth from a distance, it takes on the
appearance of clay after a seal. It's features definitely stand out. You
can see valleys, mountains and large depressions. It's features stand out,
like features do on a garment.

One might argue that Job would not have known what the earth looked like
from space. But we must remember that God is speaking to Job. Also, in the
light of Job 26:7, it seems evident that Job knew at least some details
about Earth's relationship to space.

We could add that after a devastating earthquake as has been described
above, the earth's features would really stand out. What then is God
saying?

"Since you have been alive, have you been able to control the morning's
coming? And caused the sun to know its place, so that it could grab hold of
the ends of the earth and shake the wicked out of it? The earth looks like
clay after a seal has been pressed on it, and its features stand out like
those of a garment."

I submit that this is, in fact, the correct, way to look at this passage in
Job 38.

Verse 15 is a simple statement that the wicked will lose their light. It is
nothing more. The thought of the proud and the wicked being humbled when
God shakes the earth is nothing new. In fact, many of the scriptures we
quoted above have that theme as well.

ELIHU AND THE IDENTITY OF GOD:

Vernon teaches that Elihu somehow becomes God by the time the Bible records
that God speaks to Job. Elihu is the messenger of God. He is the whirlwind
because the breath goes through him, as he breaths in, and exits from him
as he speaks. Thus, Elihu is the whirlwind.

I suppose there is a spiritual object lesson here. In that sense, anyone
who speaks by the command of God is a whirlwind but that is only an object
lesson.

But in this case, it is very important to understand the truth in this
matter because Vernon believes that as Elihu turned into God, or was God in
the flesh, so too is he today. Elihu, then, is seen as a precursor, a
previous manifestation of God in the flesh as was Melchizedek. Thus, Vernon
can justify his position as being God in the flesh today.

At this point, the reader is well advised to read the entire speech of
Elihu. There are a number of interesting factors to note about Elihu.

1. He spends a great deal of time justifying his right to speak.

2. While he does claim that God is inspiring his speech, he speaks of God
as someone other than himself. From Job 32 through 37, Elihu never puts
himself on a par with God.

3. When God has finished speaking to Job, he condemns his three friends.
Elihu is not included in God's condemnation. Thus Elihu is not guilty of
saying anything incorrect as Job's three older friends are. This means that
what Elihu says from 32 through 37 is correct. If this speech is correct,
and inspired by God, then why would Elihu suddenly switch modes in 38 and
speak of God in the first person as though he were God? What is the
difference between Elihu's words of 32 through 37, and his supposed words
in 38 and onwards seeing that both speeches are correct?

Job 38:1 clearly shows a break in the narrative. We read:

JOB 38:1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, (KJV)

This shows a clear break in narrative. If Elihu were meant here, then there
would be no need to have this break in the narrative. Chapter 38 would
merely be a continuation of Elihu's speech if he were indeed the speaker in
38. There are many narrative breaks found in the book of Job. We read, for
instance "Then Job answered. . ." After, say, Eliphaz speaks we read that
then Job answered. We do not say that Eliphaz was really Job in disguise.

Thus the most logical explanation of Job 38:1 is that God really did speak
to Job from the whirlwind. It is a fact, for example, that whirlwinds are
associated with God's throne. We find this especially in the account of
Ezekiel.

EZE 1:4 And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a
great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness {was} about it,
and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of
the fire.

In later portions of his book, Ezekiel states that he saw God's approach
and likeness as he did at first. Also, a simple word study on whirlwind
will reveal that God is often associated with them.

Thus it is not uncommon, at least biblically speaking, to associate God
with the whirlwind.

In all other narrative breaks in Job, we take the meaning at face value. If
someone answers or speaks, that means that someone answers and speaks. So
there is no basis whatsoever to equate Elihu with God.

I would now turn the reader's attention specifically to Chapter 37 of Job.
This brings us to the end of Elihu's speech. While at first glance it
appears that Elihu is simply describing God's power in nature, there is
another way of reading this chapter.

Essentially, while Elihu is speaking, a storm begins. Elihu's comments,
which seem indeed to be inspired of God, are that God's voice can be heard
in his thunder. He then describes the awesome power of God and who is
mankind to refute His judgment.

According to the NIV, which I think translates adequately in this case,
notice what Elihu says:

(Job 37:22 - 23 NIV) Out of the north he comes in golden splendor; God
comes in awesome majesty, (23) The Almighty is beyond our reach and exalted
in power; in his justice and great righteousness, he does not oppress.
Therefore, men revere him, for does he not have regard for all the wise in
heart?

If you read the last portion of 37, and the first portion of 38, it seems
clear that God approaches in a storm or whirlwind while Elihu is speaking.
When Elihu is finished proclaiming the awesome power and justice of God,
and how our wisdom is nothing in comparison, we read: "Then the Lord
answered. . ."

Again we think it ridiculous to suppose that Elihu, who has just finished
proclaiming the inability of mankind to reach God, to suddenly become God
speaking to the others. Also, the word here rendered whirlwind in the KJV
refers to an awesome manifestation of power. It is not a spiritual object
whirlwind. That is, the whirlwind here does not represent a man speaking,
and taking breath into himself. The whirlwind here, which the NIV
translates as storm, shows a very tempestuous phenomenon.

CONCLUSION:

With the material above, I hope I have convincingly shown that the current
Branch interpretation of Job 38 is, without a doubt, one of the most
grossly twisted interpretations of Scripture extant. It has absolutely no
real merit whatsoever.

I will end by relating my side of the story regarding Job 38. I will also
make a couple of additional comments regarding the chapter as a whole.
First, however, the history.

One day while at Loma Linda, I was reading through Job (which is one of my
favorite books). I started reading Job 38 and I was struck by its content.
I could see a prophetic element (which I have discussed above at length).
Of course at that time, I did not see as many of the details as I have
described above. But I could definitely see something worth studying.

I called Vernon on the telephone and told him that Job 38 was very
interesting. I highlighted some parts of the chapter and left it at that.
At no time did I believe that the light was put into the clay pot.

I had also wondered about the description of the creatures later on in Job
and there seemed to be elements of prophecy.

Later on, Vernon began to develop the light in the clay theme, although
back then, it was nothing like it is now. I was also struck by the
knowledge which Job 38 could impart regarding the structure of the earth.

When Vernon first introduced the idea that the dayspring was put into
himself I left it thinking that perhaps Vernon may have been given
knowledge beyond mine, although I did not really see that interpretation. I
gave him the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps there was an object lesson and
nothing more.

Vernon then taught that Elihu was God so to speak. I was quite surprised by
this interpretation and I gave it some thought. At that time, I respected
Vernon's views on Scripture enough to allow him time to develop his
interpretations. It should be stated here that Vernon was not always wrong
in what he said.

This was about 1987. I remember that the Elihu study was given at Atonement
of 1987. At least, that's when I heard it. I remember this because Sherri
Jewel asked me about the Elihu study. While I was answering Sherri, simply
relating the object lesson about the whirlwind, I was taken off into vision
where I saw what really happened.

I saw that as Elihu spoke, God came to the men in glorious majesty, on his
throne, speaking from the midst of a very tempestuous stormcloud. I saw
that this cloud was rimmed with a golden light, and indeed, was often very
bright. This was, of course a contradiction if you simply consider the
storms of nature.

I saw that when they realized that God had indeed approached, all shows of
wisdom came to a halt and all fell silent except for the voice which was
high above them, and which spoke from the midst of the cloud. The spectacle
was an awesome one to behold.

After that I related from Scripture the truth. Sherri was at that time
quite amazed and asked me how I was able to describe things so completely.
Sherri is easily impressed.

I told her that I had seen what really happened, and that I had faded out
while I was speaking to her and that I wasn't really certain what I had
said while I was looking at what had happened.

I relate this for the record. I do not base my beliefs on a vision. That
is, everything must be proven from Scripture. I believe that Scripturally
speaking, it is justifiable to hold that God approaches while Elihu is
speaking, and then speaks himself directly from chapter 38 and onward.
Notice too, that at the end of God's speech, God speaks to the others.

(Job 42:7-11 KJV) (7) And it was {so}, that after the Lord had spoken these
words unto Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled
against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me
{the thing that is} right, as my servant Job {hath}. (8) Therefore take
unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and
offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for
you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you {after your} folly, in
that ye have not spoken of me {the thing which is} right, like my servant
Job. (9) So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite {and} Zophar the
Naamathite went, and did according as the Lord commanded them: the Lord
also accepted Job. (10) And the Lord turned the captivity of Job, when he
prayed for his friends: also the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had
before. (11) Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his
sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat
bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over
all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him: every man also gave him a
piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

The Scripture does not say that Elihu went unto Eliphaz etc. It states that
after God finished speaking to Job, that he spoke to Eliphaz. He tells
Eliphaz that he is upset and informs them that they must go and get seven
rams etc. They must then bring them to Job. Of course, these three men
would not have had all those animals with them. They would have had to go
and get them. This is why it seems that time passes. It seems thus because
it is true.

There are other infractions of scriptural integrity which the Branches
commit with respect to Job 38. The most noteworthy is that they believe
that the mention made of the various stars justifies an astrological
approach to the heavens, as well as shows a prophetic element.

In Job 38, God is in no wise uttering a prophecy with the stars. He simply
points them out and asks Job whether he is able to govern them, or whether
he knows the laws that make them work.

The Bible condemns astrology and doctrine should not be based on it. But at
any rate, Branches currently do give a major emphasis to Job 38:12-15 which
is why I have devoted this study to those verses.

May the Lord help us learn the proper lessons from Job, for they are
important ones. May the Lord guide us in our search for understanding.

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