I would not have been aware of Stephen's web site had he not approached me to ask for permission to use my "Are you a Protestant or a Catholic?" quiz on his site. Having established an e-mail correspondence and exchanged a few polite words I suggested we start a "Seventh-day Adventist-Roman Catholic Dialogue". I made clear from the start that I would want to publish our exchanges on my SDA web site, and Stephen agreed to this.
I believe it has always been the case that Seventh-day Adventists are opposed to Roman Catholicism, not Roman Catholics. We do not judge individuals, and we do not condemn Roman Catholics today for the actions of Roman Catholics in the past.
Before our dialogue "proper" started Stephen and I exchanged the some views which are detailed below. Essentially I wanted to communicate this distinction between the individual Roman Catholic and the system of Roman Catholicism.
One other point of information. In order to make clear e-mail exchanges in which my comments are responded to by Stephen which are in turn responded to by myself I have coloured the various sections. I hope this makes clear who said what. The "latest" text is always black on white, older text is coloured.
Hi ! I am a Catholic who has a website on Adventism (http://members.xoom.com/SDAdventist/). I have just found your website, and although I haven't read much yet, I realise that this is the part of the Adventist Church I respect the most - congratulations on rethinking your theology and putting up the site. I'll link my site to your site at a later date. God bless, Stephen -- Stephen Korsman skorsman@global.co.za http://home.global.co.za/~skorsman/ - hoc est qui sumus - this is who we are - the time is near |
I've just added a link to your site from mine, under the heading "web sites that are critical of SDA and Ellen White", I've also included the Ellen White as the other link. Is this ok? I actually got to your site ok from the e-mail link, then when I tested the link I had added to my web page it said it couldn't find the page, then I refreshed and tried again and got it... Anyway I read a little from your site and your comments are pretty fair. The Adventists I have "met" in the sda newsgroup are dreadful (ok, well some of them). Particularly the ones who have "debated" with me, you get nowhere and end up just having people hurl abuse at you with no arguments. It just gets tiresome and I don't go to the newsgroup any more. If you've read the "debates" I recorded at the end of my web site you'll see what it was like! I suppose you've heard the story of a TV quiz in which a child was asked what a Seventh-day Adventist was, and they replied a vegetarian who hates Roman Catholics... John
Hi ! I saw your Protestant Quiz setup and was amazed that the Adventists also accept the same beliefs as we Catholics do, on this matter. Is this something you are actually trying to change ?? As far as I can see, the Catholic answers are the better ones - more biblical, more dependant on God's grace, less dependant on man, and more glorious for God who has truly (not only half like Protestants teach) made man righteous again. Anyway, I wanted to know if I could use your list of questions on my site - I'd like to let SDAs know this, and get a response from them. If you would prefer that I didn't take over a copy of it, I would still like to link to the list of questions. Naturally I will give you full credit. Please let me know. God bless, Stephen -- Stephen Korsman skorsman@global.co.za http://home.global.co.za/~skorsman/ - hoc est qui sumus - this is who we are - the time is near |
Yes of course you can take a copy. My reason for putting the questions (and by the way all Adventists who have answered have given mostly Catholic answers, as you may have seen) is to get Adventists to challenge their traditional beliefs. I don't think Adventists realise how much they have in common with "the enemy" !! God Bless John (I don't think of Catholics as the enemy, by the way!)
Hi ! > Yes of course you can take a copy. Thanks ! > My reason for putting the questions (and > by the way all Adventists who have answered have given mostly Catholic > answers, as you may have seen) is to get Adventists to challenge their > traditional beliefs. While it's always good to challenge and question one's beliefs, I honestly feel that the "Catholic" Adventists here are right - that view fits my understanding of the Bible much better than the relatively superficial Protestant view. > I don't think Adventists realise how much they have in > common with "the enemy" !! > (I don't think of Catholics as the enemy, by the way!) How exactly do you view us Catholics, on the one hand, and the Catholic Church on the other hand ? Thanks for the use of the file, and God bless, Stephen -- Stephen Korsman skorsman@global.co.za http://home.global.co.za/~skorsman/ - hoc est qui sumus - this is who we are - the time is near |
Is the hand better than the eye or the foot better than the mouth? We're all part of the same body aren't we? The Catholic Church is a group of Christians with their own problems and debates, with its own dynamics of course. I like reading Hans Kung and Karl Rahner. The local library has a big set of encyclopaedia's called I think the Roman Catholic Encyclopaedia with huge and detailed articles on Justification and Sanctification which I found very interesting. We have been on holiday to Italy a few times, including a week in Rome when I saw the Pope and went around the Vatican Museum and St Peters, and we have visited lots of RC churches there - St Pauls outside the walls etc. We had an RC chaplin at University who I had a number of enjoyable discussions with. So I suppose I view RCs as a varied and interesting collection of Christians with a strong tradition. John
> Is the hand better than the eye or the foot better than the mouth? We're all > part of the same body aren't we? Many Catholics would disagree, though I see us all as Christians. But I must admit that Jesus only founded one Church, though all Christians outside that Church are still part of it spiritually. > The Catholic Church is a of Christians with their own problems and debates, > with its own dynamics of course. I like reading Hans Kung and Karl Rahner. > The local library has a big set of encyclopaedia's called I think the Roman > Catholic Encyclopaedia with huge and detailed articles on Justification and > Sanctification which I found very interesting. We have been on holiday to > Italy a few times, including a week in Rome when I saw the Pope and went > around the Vatican Museum and St Peters, and we have visited lots of RC > churches there - St Pauls outside the walls etc. We had an RC chaplin at > University who I had a number of enjoyable discussions with. > So I suppose I view RCs as a varied and interesting collection of Christians > with a strong tradition. I'm glad you've had a positive experience with Catholics. It is SDAs like yourself that make me feel glad to know SDAs, though not all are like you. I guess there are equally unlikable Catholics too. Thanks for the chat, and the link ! God bless, Stephen |
I'm in two minds about this, but I was wondering whether you would be interested in a little Adventist-Catholic dialogue? I don't usually do this sort of thing, but it struck me when trying to formulate my opinions of RCs that perhaps a debate could clarify my thoughts in some areas. I find that a debate usually gives me new ideas - I have no idea what I will say before hand, and certainly don't have a "line" that I repeat. In particular I find it difficult to express a both positive and negative attitude to a belief - what is the right form of words? Anyway, if you are agreed, let me know. By the way, if it turns out to be of interest I would put it on my web site - and you could put it on yours too. John
> I'm in two minds about this, but I was wondering whether you would be > interested in a little Adventist-Catholic dialog? I don't usually do this > sort of thing, but it struck me when trying to formulate my opinions of RCs > that perhaps a debate could clarify my thoughts in some areas. Okay, if you think it would be of help to do that, then that is fine with me. From our recent discussion you seem friendly and reasonable; I try to avoid discussions with the more narrow-minded type of Adventist (and Catholic, for that matter) who tend to become unpleasant. > I find that a debate usually gives me new ideas - I have no idea what I will > say before hand, and certainly don't have a "line" that I repeat. In > particular I find it difficult to express a both positive and negative > attitude to a belief - what is the right form of words? > Anyway, if you are agreed, let me know. By the way, if it turns out to be of > interest I would put it on my web site - and you could put it on yours too. Okay, that would perhaps be a good idea. Are we going to discuss Adventist topics (soul sleep, Ellen White, the Sabbath) or are we going to discuss Catholic topics (Mary, the Pope, the Mass, the Bible, Purgatory, etc) ? I think I'll leave that up to you. If you want to clear up your views on Catholicism, perhaps a Catholic topic would lead to a better understanding of us, whereas an Adventist topic would provide less info on that, but perhaps more info on why we disagree (though both would probably do that well enough.) God bless, Stephen |
© John Mann 1999
New Perspectives on Seventh-day Adventism
jon.mann@btinternet.com